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	<title>Comments on: SEO myths and the power of repetition</title>
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	<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2009/03/19/seo-myths-and-the-power-of-repetition/</link>
	<description>Algorithm analysis, Web community relationship analysis, SEO practices and techniques, industry news, etc.</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Martinez</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2009/03/19/seo-myths-and-the-power-of-repetition/comment-page-1/#comment-1519</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Martinez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seo-theory.com/?p=1510#comment-1519</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s an &lt;em&gt;idea&lt;/em&gt; but the problem with all aggregate metrics (including those I regularly refer to, Quantcast and Compete) is that they operate as black boxes.   You don&#039;t know what their methodologies are or where (exactly) they get their data.

Comparing aggregate data samplings provides a better overall picture, in my opinion.  But you have to make sure the data samples share resources.  It doesn&#039;t make sense to aggregate query-based estimates with ISP click-data estimates, or with Javascript-based referral captures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an <em>idea</em> but the problem with all aggregate metrics (including those I regularly refer to, Quantcast and Compete) is that they operate as black boxes.   You don&#8217;t know what their methodologies are or where (exactly) they get their data.</p>
<p>Comparing aggregate data samplings provides a better overall picture, in my opinion.  But you have to make sure the data samples share resources.  It doesn&#8217;t make sense to aggregate query-based estimates with ISP click-data estimates, or with Javascript-based referral captures.</p>
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		<title>By: Optimator</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2009/03/19/seo-myths-and-the-power-of-repetition/comment-page-1/#comment-1518</link>
		<dc:creator>Optimator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seo-theory.com/?p=1510#comment-1518</guid>
		<description>StatCounter released a new tool: &lt;a href=&quot;http://gs.statcounter.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Statcounter Global Stats&lt;/a&gt;.
It looks like Google is close to world domination - especially in my home country Denmark, where the use of this one search engine compared to others is almost ridiculous - not to say frustrating (when a site gets penalized that is).
I know that there&#039;s pros and cons in the measuring methods, but overall it gives you an idea of the use of search engines. Maybe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>StatCounter released a new tool: <a href="http://gs.statcounter.com/" rel="nofollow">Statcounter Global Stats</a>.<br />
It looks like Google is close to world domination &#8211; especially in my home country Denmark, where the use of this one search engine compared to others is almost ridiculous &#8211; not to say frustrating (when a site gets penalized that is).<br />
I know that there&#8217;s pros and cons in the measuring methods, but overall it gives you an idea of the use of search engines. Maybe.</p>
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		<title>By: seo_scientist</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2009/03/19/seo-myths-and-the-power-of-repetition/comment-page-1/#comment-1517</link>
		<dc:creator>seo_scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seo-theory.com/?p=1510#comment-1517</guid>
		<description>it makes almost no sense talking about this or the other SEO technique as useful or not useful without measuring it and judging it against the ecosystem in which the site operates.

It is very similar to what happens in nature - bird&#039;s feathers are a genius &quot;invention&quot; for creatures that fly. In the water, feathers, while not being completely useless, cannot compare to fins and scales, which don&#039;t represent much of an advantage outside the water. 

To say that keyword tag, use of nofollow, repeating keywords, anchor text optimization or any other SEO technique is useless, makes as much of a sense as saying that fins or feathers are useless and stupid.

The point about relative market share is something I haven&#039;t thought about before. I assumed that, if not being completely accurate, are at least not off the chart. I will say that whoever is not interested in their MSN/Yahoo/Ask/whatever traffic, can send it my way, I&#039;ll find what to do with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it makes almost no sense talking about this or the other SEO technique as useful or not useful without measuring it and judging it against the ecosystem in which the site operates.</p>
<p>It is very similar to what happens in nature &#8211; bird&#8217;s feathers are a genius &#8220;invention&#8221; for creatures that fly. In the water, feathers, while not being completely useless, cannot compare to fins and scales, which don&#8217;t represent much of an advantage outside the water. </p>
<p>To say that keyword tag, use of nofollow, repeating keywords, anchor text optimization or any other SEO technique is useless, makes as much of a sense as saying that fins or feathers are useless and stupid.</p>
<p>The point about relative market share is something I haven&#8217;t thought about before. I assumed that, if not being completely accurate, are at least not off the chart. I will say that whoever is not interested in their MSN/Yahoo/Ask/whatever traffic, can send it my way, I&#8217;ll find what to do with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Sciarrino - Refuge Design</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2009/03/19/seo-myths-and-the-power-of-repetition/comment-page-1/#comment-1516</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Sciarrino - Refuge Design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seo-theory.com/?p=1510#comment-1516</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The problem with that belief, however, is that a 35% market share (give or take a few points) doesn’t even come close to being a monopoly.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Well, that 35% is sending 60-80% of the traffic to sites. Obviously the users on other search properties aren&#039;t getting where they intend to. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The problem with that belief, however, is that a 35% market share (give or take a few points) doesn’t even come close to being a monopoly.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, that 35% is sending 60-80% of the traffic to sites. Obviously the users on other search properties aren&#8217;t getting where they intend to. <img src='http://www.seo-theory.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Michael Martinez</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2009/03/19/seo-myths-and-the-power-of-repetition/comment-page-1/#comment-1514</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Martinez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seo-theory.com/?p=1510#comment-1514</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Joshua&lt;/strong&gt;: &quot;I just wish people would wake up to the Google monopoly&quot;

&lt;strong&gt;Michael&lt;/strong&gt;: There are plenty of people who believe Google has a monopoly on search.  The problem with that belief, however, is that a 35% market share (give or take a few points) doesn&#039;t even come close to being a monopoly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Joshua</strong>: &#8220;I just wish people would wake up to the Google monopoly&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>Michael</strong>: There are plenty of people who believe Google has a monopoly on search.  The problem with that belief, however, is that a 35% market share (give or take a few points) doesn&#8217;t even come close to being a monopoly.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Sciarrino - Refuge Design</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2009/03/19/seo-myths-and-the-power-of-repetition/comment-page-1/#comment-1513</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Sciarrino - Refuge Design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seo-theory.com/?p=1510#comment-1513</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;However, my intent (poorly executed) was to shock people into thinking about Google as a media network. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Oh. :D Well, I&#039;ve believed that since I joined the SEO industry. I guess I just assumed that was common knowledge.

And you quote about Ask saying search has a drop in it&#039;s success. I totally agree, I just wish people would wake up to the Google monopoly.  So, that we could see more innovation.

&lt;blockquote&gt;So when you see how much time people are spending on Google searches, be careful not to equate that with “search success”.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Noted and received. :)

Admin note: I really wish I was subscribed to the posts I comment on. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>However, my intent (poorly executed) was to shock people into thinking about Google as a media network. </p></blockquote>
<p>Oh. <img src='http://www.seo-theory.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  Well, I&#8217;ve believed that since I joined the SEO industry. I guess I just assumed that was common knowledge.</p>
<p>And you quote about Ask saying search has a drop in it&#8217;s success. I totally agree, I just wish people would wake up to the Google monopoly.  So, that we could see more innovation.</p>
<blockquote><p>So when you see how much time people are spending on Google searches, be careful not to equate that with “search success”.</p></blockquote>
<p>Noted and received. <img src='http://www.seo-theory.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Admin note: I really wish I was subscribed to the posts I comment on. <img src='http://www.seo-theory.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Michael Martinez</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2009/03/19/seo-myths-and-the-power-of-repetition/comment-page-1/#comment-1511</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Martinez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seo-theory.com/?p=1510#comment-1511</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;bweiss&lt;/strong&gt;: &quot;My question is how much is too much? What does it take to trigger some kind of penalty for keyword stuffing?&quot;

&lt;strong&gt;Michael&lt;/strong&gt;: I make my living by NOT tripping penalties but based on what I&#039;ve been able to put into copy, I would say you can repeat keywords a LOT on a page as long as it looks natural.

It&#039;s not like the search engines have set some maximum limit for the number of times you can use a word.   They&#039;re looking for signs of clear and obvious manipulation that don&#039;t offer any value to the people who visit Web sites.

If you can use a word 400 times on a page, and when reading the copy aloud it sounds completely natural, and you&#039;re not hiding or obscuring that copy in any way, don&#039;t be afraid to do that if it makes sense for your visitors.

Natural language doesn&#039;t get penalized.  Spamlanguage gets penalized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>bweiss</strong>: &#8220;My question is how much is too much? What does it take to trigger some kind of penalty for keyword stuffing?&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>Michael</strong>: I make my living by NOT tripping penalties but based on what I&#8217;ve been able to put into copy, I would say you can repeat keywords a LOT on a page as long as it looks natural.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not like the search engines have set some maximum limit for the number of times you can use a word.   They&#8217;re looking for signs of clear and obvious manipulation that don&#8217;t offer any value to the people who visit Web sites.</p>
<p>If you can use a word 400 times on a page, and when reading the copy aloud it sounds completely natural, and you&#8217;re not hiding or obscuring that copy in any way, don&#8217;t be afraid to do that if it makes sense for your visitors.</p>
<p>Natural language doesn&#8217;t get penalized.  Spamlanguage gets penalized.</p>
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		<title>By: bweiss</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2009/03/19/seo-myths-and-the-power-of-repetition/comment-page-1/#comment-1510</link>
		<dc:creator>bweiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seo-theory.com/?p=1510#comment-1510</guid>
		<description>Michael,
I have seen many of our client sites do well in semi-competitive searches exclusively through keyword repetition and other on-site factors without any link building whatsoever.

My question is how much is too much? What does it take to trigger some kind of penalty for keyword stuffing? It must be more than keyword density that would set it off, because you can put your name in every sentence without getting penalized. Are there algorithms that detect unnatural word use/placement? Once you get flagged for that sort of thing, would it would permanently hurt the trust of your site, or would merely toning it down fully revoke any penalties imposed? Any thoughts or experience you could share would be appreciated.
Brian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
I have seen many of our client sites do well in semi-competitive searches exclusively through keyword repetition and other on-site factors without any link building whatsoever.</p>
<p>My question is how much is too much? What does it take to trigger some kind of penalty for keyword stuffing? It must be more than keyword density that would set it off, because you can put your name in every sentence without getting penalized. Are there algorithms that detect unnatural word use/placement? Once you get flagged for that sort of thing, would it would permanently hurt the trust of your site, or would merely toning it down fully revoke any penalties imposed? Any thoughts or experience you could share would be appreciated.<br />
Brian</p>
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