<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Rand Fishkin still doesn&#8217;t understand NoFollow</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/</link>
	<description>Algorithm analysis, Web community relationship analysis, SEO practices and techniques, industry news, etc.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:48:35 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: John H. Gohde</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/comment-page-1/#comment-997</link>
		<dc:creator>John H. Gohde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seo-theory.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/#comment-997</guid>
		<description>The entire idea behind using rel=â€™nofollowâ€™ was to prevent spam.  Google intended it to be used by software developers only.  And, it is just as obvious for me to see that SEO bloggers with their never ending need to write new content started to quote Google out of context in order to justify their nonsense.  And, just as predictably all the other SEO bloggers blindly repeated this rel=â€™nofollowâ€™ nonsense due to their herd mentality.

Gives me a chuckle and plenty of opportunity for writing new posts on just how obviously stupid the entire notion really is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The entire idea behind using rel=â€™nofollowâ€™ was to prevent spam.  Google intended it to be used by software developers only.  And, it is just as obvious for me to see that SEO bloggers with their never ending need to write new content started to quote Google out of context in order to justify their nonsense.  And, just as predictably all the other SEO bloggers blindly repeated this rel=â€™nofollowâ€™ nonsense due to their herd mentality.</p>
<p>Gives me a chuckle and plenty of opportunity for writing new posts on just how obviously stupid the entire notion really is.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: seo_scientist</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/comment-page-1/#comment-995</link>
		<dc:creator>seo_scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seo-theory.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/#comment-995</guid>
		<description>while i agree that it is not something that will make or break a site (well, maybe break :) ), i think that on a theoretical level, yes, if a site has 6 outgoing links and one is nofollowed, then the other 5 will pass more linkjuice than if there was no nofollow. The question about whether it would be the same amount of linkjuice if there were 5 outgoing links in the first place is a legit one and should be answered empirically, but my gut feeling says that it should be the same.
Since not placing all the links that you do not want to leech linkjuice from your ranking pages is not a viable option for the majority of websites, nofollow would be the way to achieve the same result.

Again, I am not prescribing this as something that is utterly important for all websites, or even for a majority of websites, I am discussing it only on a theoretical level.

Another thing, I think that everyone would be much better off if this discussion was limited to mentioning Rand only for the quoting purposes. Otherwise, it could be perceived (IMHO) that one of the purposes of the [i]ad hominem[/i] arguments are taking a shot at the big dog...

And you really should try herding microbes. It actually works wonderfully. You can order them into tiny spots on a plate, when each spot represents a different population of microbes, according to the gene you have inserted into a plasmid that they received. Pretty easy to do, once you get a gist of it... ;)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>while i agree that it is not something that will make or break a site (well, maybe break <img src='http://www.seo-theory.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ), i think that on a theoretical level, yes, if a site has 6 outgoing links and one is nofollowed, then the other 5 will pass more linkjuice than if there was no nofollow. The question about whether it would be the same amount of linkjuice if there were 5 outgoing links in the first place is a legit one and should be answered empirically, but my gut feeling says that it should be the same.<br />
Since not placing all the links that you do not want to leech linkjuice from your ranking pages is not a viable option for the majority of websites, nofollow would be the way to achieve the same result.</p>
<p>Again, I am not prescribing this as something that is utterly important for all websites, or even for a majority of websites, I am discussing it only on a theoretical level.</p>
<p>Another thing, I think that everyone would be much better off if this discussion was limited to mentioning Rand only for the quoting purposes. Otherwise, it could be perceived (IMHO) that one of the purposes of the [i]ad hominem[/i] arguments are taking a shot at the big dog&#8230;</p>
<p>And you really should try herding microbes. It actually works wonderfully. You can order them into tiny spots on a plate, when each spot represents a different population of microbes, according to the gene you have inserted into a plasmid that they received. Pretty easy to do, once you get a gist of it&#8230; <img src='http://www.seo-theory.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: deInternetMarketeer</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/comment-page-1/#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>deInternetMarketeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seo-theory.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/#comment-992</guid>
		<description>Using nofollow to try to sculpt pagerank is saying to Google : Hey, i&#039;m trying to influence your rankings.

I&#039;m wondering how long it will take before we have nofollow penalties ...

But to be honest, nofollow should completely be dropped by Google. It&#039;s not normal that 1 (!) search engine decides how websites need to be builded.

Especially not if you have to use it to help &#039;big billion Google&#039; to make their SERP&#039;s.
Crawl, calculate and make the rankings. That&#039;s what they have to do, not saying how websites need to be builded to rank in their search engine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using nofollow to try to sculpt pagerank is saying to Google : Hey, i&#8217;m trying to influence your rankings.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m wondering how long it will take before we have nofollow penalties &#8230;</p>
<p>But to be honest, nofollow should completely be dropped by Google. It&#8217;s not normal that 1 (!) search engine decides how websites need to be builded.</p>
<p>Especially not if you have to use it to help &#8216;big billion Google&#8217; to make their SERP&#8217;s.<br />
Crawl, calculate and make the rankings. That&#8217;s what they have to do, not saying how websites need to be builded to rank in their search engine.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DangerMouse</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/comment-page-1/#comment-986</link>
		<dc:creator>DangerMouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seo-theory.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/#comment-986</guid>
		<description>My meaning was a little unclear then, I was referring to the now out of date PR algo, where I thought it was generally accepted that the a page may distribute some of this mysterious &#039;value&#039; to other pages via outbound links. I agree completely with your point that it is not possible to accurately quantify what &#039;value&#039; a page currently holds and what &#039;value&#039; it shares.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My meaning was a little unclear then, I was referring to the now out of date PR algo, where I thought it was generally accepted that the a page may distribute some of this mysterious &#8216;value&#8217; to other pages via outbound links. I agree completely with your point that it is not possible to accurately quantify what &#8216;value&#8217; a page currently holds and what &#8216;value&#8217; it shares.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Martinez</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/comment-page-1/#comment-985</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Martinez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seo-theory.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/#comment-985</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;DangerMouse&lt;/strong&gt;: &quot;... however should the limited information available on PR be accurate surely you must concede that â€˜no-followâ€™ theoretically can have some effect on the flow of PR style authority around a sites internal architecture?&quot;

&lt;strong&gt;Michael&lt;/strong&gt;:  If you&#039;re referring to the Google Toolbar PR values (which most people in the SEO community equate with a putative &lt;em&gt;logarithmic equation&lt;/em&gt;), Googlers have already told us that by the time the PR data is published it&#039;s out-of-date.   Unless one uses a very broad, flexible, and unrealistic definition for &quot;accurate&quot;, I don&#039;t see how one can say we have any accurate information to work with.

If you&#039;re referring to something else, it will help me if you&#039;re a little more specific.  I admit to being entirely ignorant about any other published PageRank data (except for the valuations that have been shared through the Google Directory -- but I believe someone recently reported those valuations were modified to conform to the Toolbar&#039;s reported data).

There really is no way to determine which pages have PageRank, what the PageRank is, and which links are passing PageRank.  You can sort of guess -- based on crawl rates and the passing of anchor text -- which pages probably have some decent PageRank, but how do you reliably quantify that information?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>DangerMouse</strong>: &#8220;&#8230; however should the limited information available on PR be accurate surely you must concede that â€˜no-followâ€™ theoretically can have some effect on the flow of PR style authority around a sites internal architecture?&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>Michael</strong>:  If you&#8217;re referring to the Google Toolbar PR values (which most people in the SEO community equate with a putative <em>logarithmic equation</em>), Googlers have already told us that by the time the PR data is published it&#8217;s out-of-date.   Unless one uses a very broad, flexible, and unrealistic definition for &#8220;accurate&#8221;, I don&#8217;t see how one can say we have any accurate information to work with.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re referring to something else, it will help me if you&#8217;re a little more specific.  I admit to being entirely ignorant about any other published PageRank data (except for the valuations that have been shared through the Google Directory &#8212; but I believe someone recently reported those valuations were modified to conform to the Toolbar&#8217;s reported data).</p>
<p>There really is no way to determine which pages have PageRank, what the PageRank is, and which links are passing PageRank.  You can sort of guess &#8212; based on crawl rates and the passing of anchor text &#8212; which pages probably have some decent PageRank, but how do you reliably quantify that information?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/comment-page-1/#comment-984</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seo-theory.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/#comment-984</guid>
		<description>I certainly agree that rel=nofollow is a bad choice for anyone with long-term ranking in mind, but opening post with a semantic attack hurts this posts total value.

The use of neutered links is old-school. Why are people switching to nofollow? Probably laziness, it takes less time than javascripting. Or maybe they just spontaneously forgot the other technology options to make the major search bots turn a blind eye.

You use the example of changing 6 links to 5 links being a minimal, that is probably not the case (5 way redistribution of 17% of total value). The redistribution at small numbers is likely far greater than most nofollow schemes are working with, since they are usually nofollowing about 12 links on pages that have between 75-200 links. For example Zappos nofollows 39 out of 193 links on their homepage (~20%). So Zappos is redistributing 20% of their total value across 154 links. And as you point out total value is an unknown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly agree that rel=nofollow is a bad choice for anyone with long-term ranking in mind, but opening post with a semantic attack hurts this posts total value.</p>
<p>The use of neutered links is old-school. Why are people switching to nofollow? Probably laziness, it takes less time than javascripting. Or maybe they just spontaneously forgot the other technology options to make the major search bots turn a blind eye.</p>
<p>You use the example of changing 6 links to 5 links being a minimal, that is probably not the case (5 way redistribution of 17% of total value). The redistribution at small numbers is likely far greater than most nofollow schemes are working with, since they are usually nofollowing about 12 links on pages that have between 75-200 links. For example Zappos nofollows 39 out of 193 links on their homepage (~20%). So Zappos is redistributing 20% of their total value across 154 links. And as you point out total value is an unknown.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: seomexfan</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/comment-page-1/#comment-983</link>
		<dc:creator>seomexfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seo-theory.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/#comment-983</guid>
		<description>Michael.

You did make your point crystal clear. Even me, a Mexican with English as a second language understood your point.

I think that what happens here, itÂ´s that several guys in SEO think that RandÂ´s assumptions and comments (specially when Rand makes a refference to Matt Cutts) are &quot;All-Mighty&quot; Trues and Facts. However, this cannot be more far from true.

This morning, when I red RandÂ´s Post about this subject (Seven Short SEO Scribbles), to be honest I was kind of confused, and I thought I misunderstood RandÂ´s point, maybe because of my poor English, so I had to re-read it twice and more carefully. But, it didnÂ´t make any sense to me that a page with X number of followable links and Y number of nofollow links, will pass more Link-Juice (PR) to those followable links.

Michael, thank you for making a clarification about this issue.

By the way, You made me laugh with this &quot;You might as well try herding Microbes.&quot;


Saludos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael.</p>
<p>You did make your point crystal clear. Even me, a Mexican with English as a second language understood your point.</p>
<p>I think that what happens here, itÂ´s that several guys in SEO think that RandÂ´s assumptions and comments (specially when Rand makes a refference to Matt Cutts) are &#8220;All-Mighty&#8221; Trues and Facts. However, this cannot be more far from true.</p>
<p>This morning, when I red RandÂ´s Post about this subject (Seven Short SEO Scribbles), to be honest I was kind of confused, and I thought I misunderstood RandÂ´s point, maybe because of my poor English, so I had to re-read it twice and more carefully. But, it didnÂ´t make any sense to me that a page with X number of followable links and Y number of nofollow links, will pass more Link-Juice (PR) to those followable links.</p>
<p>Michael, thank you for making a clarification about this issue.</p>
<p>By the way, You made me laugh with this &#8220;You might as well try herding Microbes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Saludos.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DangerMouse</title>
		<link>http://www.seo-theory.com/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/comment-page-1/#comment-982</link>
		<dc:creator>DangerMouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seo-theory.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/rand-fishkin-still-doesnt-understand-nofollow/#comment-982</guid>
		<description>I agree thats Rand&#039;s comment was poorly phrased, however I&#039;m suprised that you&#039;ve jumped upon such a minor error with such vigour (imo it&#039;s clearly a case of a loose sentence rather than the meaning you suggest). Generally I agree with your points about &#039;PR sculpting&#039; being an imperfect science (and in many cases not neccessary) and as a result you cannot demonstrate clear ROI from the activity, however should the limited information available on PR be accurate surely you must concede that &#039;no-follow&#039; theoretically can have some effect on the flow of PR style authority around a sites internal architecture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree thats Rand&#8217;s comment was poorly phrased, however I&#8217;m suprised that you&#8217;ve jumped upon such a minor error with such vigour (imo it&#8217;s clearly a case of a loose sentence rather than the meaning you suggest). Generally I agree with your points about &#8216;PR sculpting&#8217; being an imperfect science (and in many cases not neccessary) and as a result you cannot demonstrate clear ROI from the activity, however should the limited information available on PR be accurate surely you must concede that &#8216;no-follow&#8217; theoretically can have some effect on the flow of PR style authority around a sites internal architecture?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
