Why Rand Fishkin’s nofollow post was wrong

by Michael Martinez on February 1, 2008

The SEO method is pretty clear and simple: Experiment, evaluate, adjust. Unfortunately, some people toss in an unwarranted fourth step: “Reach inappropriate conclusions and proclaim revolutionary breakthroughs in SEO science”.

Let’s look at Rand Fishkin’s recent premature declaration that his implementation of Rel=Nofollow on many internal links magically increased the number of search referrals to SEOmoz. Although Rand inserted a few ifs, ands, buts, and ors into his blog post, he was pretty much convinced that SEOmoz had finally proven that using Rel=Nofollow on your internal links is the latest way to ensure search engine success.

Both Danny Sullivan and I challenged Rand’s assumption, and first Danny then I pointed out that our sites (SearchEngineLand and SEO Theory) have experienced dramatic increases in traffic since the beginning of the year. Neither of us has implemented Rel=Nofollow on internal links.

The whole idea of using Rel=Nofollow to control the flow of PageRank throughout a Web site is very specious. Matt Cutts said, when asked if Rel=Nofollow could be used that way, that it could be used that way. To date I have yet to see him tell people to run out and nofollow their “About Us”, “Contact Us”, and other important pages on their sites (NOTE: See update at bottom).

Last year at SMX Advanced Matt told an audience that “your Web site gets only so much PageRank”, and from there the wrong conclusions began spewing out of the SEO community. How much is “so much”? Matt never bothered to explain that abstract comment, but it does dove-tail nicely with Google’s practice of Web Apartheid, where (by my estimates) as much as 70-80% of all Web pages appear to be trapped in Google’s Supplemental Index.

How Google calculates the “so much” PageRank per Web site doesn’t matter. People have gone off the deep end and concluded that they can massage that “so much” to boost the search visibility for some of their pages at the expense of others. Conceptually, that makes sense only if you can show that of the 20-30% of your pages that probably are in the Main Web Index some of them should not be.

Now, some sites (like SEOmoz) have huge natural backlink profiles. It stands to reason that they have a statistically valid chance of getting more than 20-30% of their pages into the Main Web Index. But what if my estimate is wrong? What if only 50% of the Web is in the Supplemental Index? What if only 25% of the Web is in the Supplemental Index? It still doesn’t matter. SEOmoz should have a higher percentage of Main Web Index pages than the average Web site.

Regardless of where you draw the line, you’re pretty much saying that X-percent of all linking resources on the Web do not pass value. Add to that the many Main Web Index pages that have — apparently — lost their ability to pass value either because people use Javascript, nofollow, or violated some guideline and Google stripped those pages of that ability.

If the dividing line between Main Web and Supplemental Index pages is 50%, you still have fewer than 50% of all Web documents that are capable of passing value. Link rich sites like SEOmoz tend to soak up a disproportionate amount of that value being passed. Hence, the need to “sculpt PageRank” for a site like SEOmoz is minimal at best.

There are some legitimate reasons to use rel=nofollow within internal content in a Web that has been mutilated by link spam. All personal profile pages should probably be nofollowed just to discourage people from signing up for profiles (not that a relatively orphaned profile page on the average social media or forum site will pass value anyway, but the perception of possible value stimulates the bogus link economy).

You might also want to program your search results pages to use nofollow if they link out to other sites. After all, you have no control over the content on those sites. But site search tools should NOT use nofollow. If you nofollow your links to profile pages, how can you use a third-party tool to allow your visitors to find profile pages? You need to maintain an internal search database to ensure that visitors to your site can find what THEY are interested in looking for.

The worst mistake an SEO can make is assuming that they know better than the visitor what the visitor wants to see. When you poke around someone else’s Web site, the fact you click away from their most prominent pages — from their conversion pages — in your quest to find out more shows that you place some value in the rest of the Web site, even if it’s only transient value that won’t persist through to your next visit.

If you want to use Nofollow in your internal navigation, make sure visitors can find the destination pages. Just because you have Nofollowed links doesn’t mean people will see the links. Many people habitually use site search tools to find what they are looking for, so if you shoot yourself in the foot with Nofollow your site search will pretty much suck.

Most Web sites have no legitimate need or reason to attempt to sculpt PageRank. First of all, there are no reliable tests that show you which of your pages are in the Supplemental Index. Secondly, there is no way to know how much PageRank you have (don’t even waste your time by glancing at the Toolbar — it tells you nothing useful). Thirdly, there is no way to know how your PageRank is flowing throughout your site.

People have attempted to draw up “PR Maps” — page listings with Toolbar PR values. Those maps are completely useless because they don’t capture PR values in tandem. Most people never even stop to think about how often each page on their site is crawled, re-indexed, or whatever. A page’s internal PageRank can change quickly but its Toolbar PR value (which Google says is based on more than just linkage) may be relatively stable or artificial.

Since you cannot map the real PageRank assigned to your pages, you cannot track PageRank flow. If you cannot track PageRank, you cannot knowledgably influence it. You can shoot in the dark, make wild guesses, and reach unfounded conclusions. But you cannot prove that you successfully manipulate PageRank.

The only visible effect of having more PageRank than the other guy is that you should have a higher percentage of pages in the Main Web Index. PageRank by itself rarely affects search results directly. Most competitive queries are iinfluenced more by link anchor text than by anything else (although some content-lean pages can shoot to the top of competitive search results quickly).

Still, having more pages in the Main Web Index is the trick. They’ll automatically rank higher than Supplemental Pages regardless of which pages are most relevant to the query. So concentrating your internal PageRank into fewer pages doesn’t make any competitive sense. You’re cutting yourself out of long-tail queries.

Nonetheless, Rand claimed that SEOmoz has seen a dramatic increase in search referrals over the past few weeks. But then, so have SearchEngineLand and SEO Theory. One site implemented Nofollow on internal links and two sites did not. That questions the value of Rand’s conclusion.

In fact, to show cause and effect in a system where you don’t control all conditions, there is only one valid test: repetition. If you think a change you’ve made to your site has caused something to change in search results, in order to find out whether there is a connection between your change and the search results change you have to repeat the process.

So, to test Nofollowed navigation you need to:

  1. Insert nofollow on your selected links. Understand that if you allow alternative links to stand unaltered you’re probably NOT going to reshape your PageRank flow.
  2. Wait for the Nofollowing pages to be indexed.
  3. Determine if the Nofollowed destination pages drop out of the search results (they should if you did this right).
  4. Remove the nofollows from your linking pages.
  5. Wait for the restored linking pages to be indexed.
  6. Determine if the destination pages return to the search results.
  7. Insert the nofollows again.
  8. Wait for the pages to be indexed again.
  9. Determine if the destination pages drop out of the search results.

Two iterations won’t provide you with conclusive results but if the second iteration produces a different apparent result from the first then you can stop right there. Either you did something wrong or your nofollows don’t matter.

If you appear to have replicated the predicted results, go for a third iteration. The third iteration should clinch the test for you.

But even showing that placing Rel=Nofollow on your pages can drop pages from the index doesn’t show that you’ll get more search referrals. Suppose you have X amount of PageRank and you have mystically determined which of your pages are in the Main Web Index.

You could drop all your Supplemental Pages from the index by Nofollowing them (assuming no one else is linking to them). Of course, that doesn’t make your Main Web Index pages any more visible. It just increases the average internal PageRank per page but they are already fully indexed so they don’t become relevant to any more queries.

You could pick a few of your Supplemental Pages and try to pass sufficient PageRank to them that they move into the Main Web Index. Assuming one could do this with complete control, I would move one page at a time. Eventually you would reach a threshold point where at least one page would drop out as you move a new page in.

So you would have to Nofollow all but one of your Supplemental pages and point more links to it. Maybe that would work, maybe not.

In the end, if you can increase the number of pages in the Main Web Index, you’ll do it by pointing more links to them, not by using Rel=Nofollow. Why? Because if you eliminate Rel=Nofollow from the process I just described it still works. Simply pointing more internal links to more pages helps your internal PageRank flow through your site.

You still may not have enough PageRank to get every page into the Main Web Index. Most Web sites don’t seem to accumulate that much PageRank. But most Web sites don’t naturally optimize their internal linking anyway. Internal links have only begun to earn some respect from the SEO community after several years of people depending on external links. Most so-called optimized sites these days are actually very poorly optimized.

So, did Rand directly affect his search referrals by implementing Rel=Nofollow? Probably not, but let’s look at the four reasons your search results change:

There are four reasons for why your search results change:

  1. You do something with your Web site
  2. Other people do something with their Web sites
  3. The search engines do something with their algorithms and/or data
  4. People change what they are searching for

Since the beginning of December we know that Google has made algorithmic changes. We also know that people (including SEOmoz) have been changing their Web sites (simply adding new blog posts to your site changes it). And we know that Google claims to see 20-25% new queries every month.

Since the beginning of December, SEOmoz, SearchEngineLand, and SEO Theory have all attracted new natural links. Since the beginning of December SEOmoiz, SearchEngineLand, and SEO Theory have all increased their internal linkage. Since the beginning of December the types of queries that bring people to SEO Theory have gradually shifted to include new expressions I don’t recall seeing before.

Using Rel=Nofollow on internal links is just another unproven, cheesy, how-to-game-Google link trick. Matt Cutts endorsed it a a means of sculpting PageRank but since no one can knowledgably sculpt PageRank anyway it’s not likely to help spammers and therefore won’t hurt Google in Google’s point of view.

Of course, Google’s search results already suck because they refuse to show the most relevant content first. But that’s a point to return to another day.

UPDATE: In a discussion of this post at Sphinn, g1msd and Halfdeck found an interview Eric Enge conducted with Matt Cutts last year. In that interview, Eric said:

“What we’ve been doing is working with clients and telling them to take pages like their about us page, and their contact us page, and link to them from the home page normally, without a NoFollow attribute, and then link to them using NoFollow from every other page. It’s just a way of lowering the amount of link juice they get. These types of pages are usually the highest PageRank pages on the site, and they are not doing anything for you in terms of search traffic.”

To which Matt replied, “Absolutely. So, we really conceive of NoFollow as a pretty general mechanism.”

Eric’s advice is ill-conceived, at least as presented in that article, in that it doesn’t guarantee either A) that PageRank to the “About Us” page will be reduced or B) that the “About Us” page won’t appear in search results for the client’s name.

In fact, a well-optimized site will use internal link anchor text in the form of “About Company X” rather than “About Us”. If PageRank were really making a difference, you’d find your “About Us” page ranking highly for…ABOUT US.

Until your “About Us” page hits the top 1,000 in THAT query, you don’t need to be agonizing over how much PageRank your “About Us” page is accumulating. But if it REALLY bothers you, then just put some links on your “About Us” page to other portions of your site and send that PageRank flowing to where you think it should be.

You’ll accomplish more through positive linking than through negative linking.

{ 19 comments… read them below or add one }

Halfdeck 02.01.08 at 1:08 pm

I agree Rand jumped the gun on this one. Just because A is followed by B doesn’t mean A caused B – its one of those logical fallacies that I often see people make on forums.

“SEOmoz should have a higher percentage of Main Web Index pages than the average Web site.”

If a 2 page site is fully indexed, that’s 100%. Percentage depends on site size and backlink strength (as well as other stuff like internal link structure). If you compare two sites that return similar number of results for a site:domain.com query – then you can compare index penetration percentage.

site:searchengineland.com returns 4,000 pages on my DC.
site:seobook.com returns ~4,000

So those sites are approximately the same size, though SEL has sitewide links to /ads/ which accumulate PageRank though robots.txt disallowed.

site:searchengineland.com/* returns 3,300 pages.
site:seobook.com/* returns 1,400 pages

(yeah, the site:/* is inaccurate)

Compare that to SEOMOZ (8k pages total, only 1,600 pages in main, according to the inaccurate site:/* query) That does not mean SEOmoz’ backlinks are weaker than SEL’s. If you have the same amount of juice going into a site with 10 pages VS a site with 100,000 pages, you may see the first site with a home page TBPR 6 while the second site (with the same amount of overall juice equity) display a home page TBPR 2 because of PageRank fragmentation across 100,000 pages.

Carlos 02.01.08 at 1:25 pm

Alright I want to want to be very careful not to misstate this.

There shouldn’t be any need for a discussion of IF rel=nofollow affect internal linking, it has been around long enough that most SEO’s worth their salt have tested it. Conceptually rel=nofollow is a short cut that works on Google to mimic a much more sophisticated internal link structure.

Spend some time looking at MFA, or other spam, sites and you will realize that nofollow is not your best option for control. But there is at least one application where it can be very powerful, in my experience.

Michael Martinez 02.01.08 at 3:22 pm

Halfdeck: “8k pages total, only 1,600 pages in main, according to the inaccurate site:/* query”

Michael: I would not trust that query under any circumstances. I never have.

As far as the site query operator is concerned, it’s totally screwed up. There are problems with it that I haven’t discussed publicly, waiting to see who else might say something first (I know, someone has to be first and why not me?).

As for your TBPR point, Toolbar PR tells you nothing useful.

Carlos: “Conceptually rel=nofollow is a short cut that works on Google to mimic a much more sophisticated internal link structure.”

Michael: Why should it be a short-cut? All you’re doing is telling any search engine (that cares about nofollow) to not follow a specific link. It doesn’t directly affect the distribution of PageRank on a Web site.

Nofollow is not nearly as useful as people in the SEO community would like it to be. It should be used to prevent off-site links from helping sites you don’t trust, especially on member profile pages, pages where visitors can add their own links, etc.

Using Nofollow on your own internal linkage just makes it more difficult for search engines to find pages. It doesn’t in any way make it easier for search engines to find pages.

You make it easier for search engines to find pages by pointing more links to those pages. If you don’t want pages indexed, you shouldn’t be creating them.

Carlos 02.01.08 at 4:08 pm

Michael: You make it easier for search engines to find pages by pointing more links to those pages. If you don’t want pages indexed, you shouldn’t be creating them.

Carlos: That is an overstatement terms of service and privacy pages are good examples of pages that many site have/need but don’t want indexed. Cutting off the internal “link flow” to these pages that are often site wide links can make a major difference in the indexing of a site.

Connie 02.01.08 at 5:48 pm

Carlos:

Seems to me if a page is important for visitors it should important for SEs.

I wonder why you think SEs, and Google in particular considers more than one link in common navigation on a site. For instance a about us page which is normally a site wide link. Why would A SE consider more than one link to the about us page?

If the SE is only counting one link it seems to me that adding the nofollow element to the link won’t do much for the other pages.

I realize Matt Cutts says you can control page rank using nofollow. I really doubt there are very many webmasters that have enough understanding about page rank to accomplish that.

Lea de Groot 02.01.08 at 6:45 pm

Connie: I wonder why you think SEs, and Google in particular considers more than one link in common navigation on a site.

Well, they seem to.
Example: I installed a blog to experiment with recently and it has 4 entries.
I have set it so that the categories are meta-noindexed.
However I didn’t put any of the indexable individual posts in the sitenav.
Can you guess what pages you get when do a search for the long and unique title?
The wp-admin and wp password reminder pages.
Because they are the only pages with sitewide links that aren’t noindexed (Yes, say ‘oops’ with me)

So, sidewide links probably aren’t generally ignored.

Carlos 02.01.08 at 8:01 pm

@Connie – supposedly Yahoo only considers one link per site for passing value, but Google appears to be more liberal working on a diminishing returns model.

Test this by sending anchor text (that doesn’t appear on page) to two different pages on your site once with a single link and once with two links. When they are indexed search your site.

Halfdeck 02.02.08 at 12:55 am

Basically Michael is telling you this. If you have a TBPR 10 About us page with 1,000,000 internal sitewide links pointing at it and 100,000 pages in the supplemental – that can benefit from leeching off that about us page and make you some $$$, his advice is don’t touch the about us page. That would be great advice if you didn’t like money.

Michael Martinez 02.02.08 at 9:58 am

Carlos: “That is an overstatement terms of service and privacy pages are good examples of pages that many site have/need but don’t want indexed.”

Michael: Sorry, Carlos, but that dog won’t hunt. Terms of Service and Privacy Policy pages need to be findable along with all other content on Web sites. If someone doesn’t want their TOS and Privacy page found, they don’t need to include those pages on their site.

Halfdeck: “Basically Michael is telling you this. If you have a TBPR 10 About us page with 1,000,000 internal sitewide links pointing at it and 100,000 pages in the supplemental – that can benefit from leeching off that about us page and make you some $$$, his advice is don’t touch the about us page. That would be great advice if you didn’t like money.”

Michael: Nope. There is absolutely no Web site anywhere that is being hurt by an About Us page that has a high PageRank (and, again, you keep referring to the utterly meaningless Toolbar PR values).

If anyone FEELS their About Us page is hurting some other page on their site, all they need to do is link to that “hurt” page from the About Us page with appropriate anchor text.

Michael Martinez 02.02.08 at 10:02 am

Lea de Groot: “So, sidewide links probably aren’t generally ignored.”

Michael: Sitewide links work just fine unless they look guilty in some other way.

Generally speaking, if you find an SEO blog or tutorial that tells you NOT to allow your internal link navigation to work normally (i.e., they advise you to Nofollow or Noindex your links), you should ignore their advice. It’s bad advice, grounded on nothing more than emotion and opinion, and contradicted by multiple people’s detrimental experiences.

Wordpress blogs have a notorious reputation for being “SEO unfriendly” out of the box. People install all sorts of SEO crap plug-ins to “fix” their Wordpress blogs, browsers, and so forth.

I do absolutely nothing to make SEO Theory “SEO friendly”. It is better indexed in Google than most SEO blogs.

Take that for what it’s worth.

dodito 02.03.08 at 5:03 am

Michael,

how about admin type of links. “Bookmark”, “print”, “email” and we have some ajax buttons as well for adding a tag etc. All that stuff leads to “nowehere” (contrary to an about us, investor info etc etc).

Would it be helpful to block those links out, especially if you already have so many links on the page to begin with ?

dodito 02.03.08 at 5:11 am

OK that may have been a stupid question. If I cannot find it back in the search results (e.g. a print page etc) , it’s obviously been discounted for in a different way and nofollow won’t change a thing. Bookmarks/my favorites/personal pages should be kept out of any results by using robots.txt, right ? So all that wouldn’t influence the flow of PR ?

joepreston 02.03.08 at 8:15 pm

“I do absolutely nothing to make SEO Theory “SEO friendly”. It is better indexed in Google than most SEO blogs.”

citation needed

Halfdeck 02.03.08 at 9:28 pm

“If anyone FEELS their About Us page is hurting some other page on their site, all they need to do is link to that “hurt” page from the About Us page with appropriate anchor text.”

Yeah, let’s just turn the About Us page into a Site Map.

Michael Martinez 02.03.08 at 9:59 pm

Joe Preston: “citation needed”.

Michael: You may cite my post. :)

If you had something else in mind, feel free to elaborate on the details you’d like to see.

Halfdeck: “Yeah, let’s just turn the About Us page into a Site Map.”

Michael: That’s pretty much what I would do for any Web site whose “About Us” page actually shows up first in the search results for anything other than “About so-and-so”. It would be a great opportunity to cross-promote other content on the Web site, provide a little link anchor text, and to show the search engines where the PageRank should go next.

dodito 02.04.08 at 1:22 am

The About Us page has come up several times in the past, in this type of discussion. A bit to my surprise. How often does this situation actually occur ? I use search 25-50 times a day, and it’s not really a page that I see all too often. Our own website is at present poorly structured, Our about us page is at the bottom of each page, yet for our domain name; the name of our foundation (not the same), a whole bunch of important SINGLE keywords, most search engines produce exactly the page we would expect/want them to give first. (I.e. they rank nr1 in our site: search in 3-4 search engines).

That is with an intermediate level of SEO at best. I am not sure I understand how it can be possible you feel “competition” from an “about us” page if that is not what you want, and why you would want to resort to PR to influence that?

About cross promoting: we (will) do this all the time: there are quite a few pages that score in the long tail. Well.. we just thought about which topics should be of interest to them, and in our new template, we (will) point them to these pages first. Just in case the long tail page does not deliver.

Is it so hard to think what people would want when they get to the About Us page, and point them to these other pages as “suggestions” ? Is that really less efficient/effective/user-friendly/lesser ROI ?

I am a bit surprised how algorithmic people think in the SEO community.

I have a question:

There are topics that are of bigger interest/more important than others to users on your site. By addressing their needs, these topics will automatically flow to the top (i.e. in menus, linked to most frequently, right anchor text inside documents, and most often quoted on your own site etc. etc.). If you do this well, wouldn’t you address say 75 % of all necessary SEO requirements at the same time ?

wyliet 02.04.08 at 3:22 am

Ok so the nofollow tag might not work (speculation both ways really), but do you think it should work in this way, to help users sculpt page rank? Should web developers be able to show content that is more relevant to user’s searches by using this tag? You go on a lot about the search engines not giving good results for queries, is this not a way that site owners can highlight good content to users and therefore make the whole process of search smoother? I know you’ll probably come back and say content that isn’t good shouldn’t be on a site, and I agree, but some content is more relevant to business goals than other content. Why shouldn’t we be able to highlight this to a search engine? In this way the site creator reviews his/her own site and the SE’s algorithms do the rest. I can only imagine that you would get a much clearer picture of the what the web has to offer this way.

Michael Martinez 02.04.08 at 8:19 am

dodito: “…The About Us page has come up several times in the past, in this type of discussion. A bit to my surprise. How often does this situation actually occur ?…”

Michael: I seriously doubt anyone has conducted a survey. Dan Thies started the whole myth about these types of incidental pages being unimportant. He has a lot of people chasing their tails over nothing.

Most business sites WANT their “About Us” and “Contact Us” pages to be easily found in search results, and PageRank is not making that huge an impact on typical queries.

dodito:”There are topics that are of bigger interest/more important than others to users on your site. By addressing their needs, these topics will automatically flow to the top (i.e. in menus, linked to most frequently, right anchor text inside documents, and most often quoted on your own site etc. etc.). If you do this well, wouldn’t you address say 75 % of all necessary SEO requirements at the same time ?”

Michael: Search engine optimization is not exactly the same as Web site optimization. An optimally designed site might actually rank poorly in search results for many relevant queries, even if it has the most extensive content.

Good Web site structure has to look at more than just what is included in the navigation system. For example, on a 1,000-page site you’ve probably organized your content into categories. You want to emphasize cross-promotion between categories that have easily recognized connections. That doesn’t have to have much if any impact on search results (for example, I use Javascript banners on Xenite.Org to lighten the load on my server).

A robust Web site should employ all the tools available and necessary to address the audience without regard for what search engines will do. I’m not saying a Web site should disregard search engine rules — rather, search engines are only part of the overall Web promotion picture.

wyliet: “Ok so the nofollow tag might not work (speculation both ways really), but do you think it should work in this way, to help users sculpt page rank?”

Michael: No. To “sculpt PageRank” you have to be able to measure it in a timely fashion. That simply isn’t possible.

Using nofollow on internal links is nothing more than a time-wasting SEO fad. You might as well be submitting links to a free-for-all page.

wyliet: “Should web developers be able to show content that is more relevant to user’s searches by using this tag?”

Michael: Rel=nofollow has only one function: to hide content from search engines. You’re telling them not to follow the link, not to count the link, not to treat the content as if there is any relationship between it and your page.

If you want to show search engines which content is more relavent to the queries you’re targeting, point more unrestricted links toward that content.

My complaints about the poor quality of Google’s search results stem from Google’s willful, deliberate segregation of the Web into two categories: Preferred Pages (Main Web Index) and Supplemental Pages. Preferred Pages are always shown first in search results regardless of how much more relevant the Supplemental Pages may be to queries.

You cannot improve the quality of Google’s search results by using rel=nofollow on your “About Us” and “Contact Us” pages.

If you’ve made it possible for your users to create profile pages where they can link out to their own Web sites, you might want to consider putting rel=nofollow on outbound links so that you don’t unwittingly help promote spam sites.

But telling search engines not to follow your internal links is like calling a press conference and then telling the media to go away. “There’s a story here but I’m not going to show it to you.”

Hence, you might as well NOT put those pages on your site.

wyliet 02.05.08 at 2:27 am

Thanks for the reply Michael. I guess the idea is to promote your most profitable content more, target inbound links and sculpt your rankings, not your page rank.

T